Comments on: Cosmic Aesthetics: Begbie, von Balthasar, and some musings on modernity’s implications for theological aesthetics

By: Davis

Davis — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 18:56:44 +0000

Thanks Dan, I’ll check out his work which is reminiscent of Martin Puryear.

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:09:55 +0000

Apologies for the typos.. haven’t had coffee yet.

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:08:12 +0000

Now for a boring ontological comment: what is precisely wrong with Beothius’s, or Aquinas’s or Duns Scotus’s distinction btwn. the immaterial soul and the material organic bodily organs? In the end, I wonder whether the frustration with the first two is their principle(s) of individuation of forms. Whereas they would say some property is individual b/c of an individual subject where the ‘universal’ has a foothold in the world, Scotus want to say that even the accident properties are individual, which of course depend on the substance (b/c of inesse). In modern analytic philosophy, this is akin to trope theory, where every property just is individual (not a universal)-even if it is ontologically dependent on a substance/subject: this by the way, is one of the interpretations of Aristotle argued for by some in the 20th c.

Or again, the question is: what is sense knowledge? what is intellectual knowledge? Is the concern that we ought to attribute more or a difference sort of knowledge in sense knowledge? Medievals would think it somewhat obvious that our senses don’t function that way– but perhaps what is wished to be account for is the experience of ‘immediate’ knowledge of some object w/o discursive reasoning? If so, Duns Scotus does elaborate a different sort of cognizing, which is intuitive cognition (w/o concepts). Still, this cognizing is proximately possible b/c of the immaterial human or angelic intellect, not the senses.

By: DWM

DWM — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 00:43:53 +0000

Davis, et al.,
If you haven’t seen the excellent film Andy Goldsworthy’s Rivers and Tides: Working With Time, it is an excellent introduction to this incredible artist. His ability to work with natural elements is mysterious and humbling to me.

By: DWM

DWM — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 00:39:41 +0000

Scott, glad to see your branching out to nature movies and discussing theatre genre. LOL

As far as the genre and medium of musical theatre can illustrate the doctrine of creation, I would wonder if they can any more than any other genre or medium. I don’t think I’m comfortable at this point in privledging any of the arts as more or less able to communicate or illustrate theology. That is to say, I think the entire creation, which if we go with Begbie includes vision and sound - thus all media and genre - is able to illustrate AND participate in the profound relationship between creation and Creator.

By: DWM

DWM — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 00:26:20 +0000

Cynthia, thanks for the kind words. I, too, am interested in similar sytheses of protestant thought on aesthetics, especially those which take impetus from the Dutch (e.g. Rookmaaker, Wolterstorff, Walford, and Begbie), with Catholic tradition and metaphysical thought. I’ve been thinking for a long time about similarities in Balthasar’s ressourcement of the analogia entis (esp. his reflection on the Romantic era in GL 5) and Wolterstorff writing on disinterestedness in Art in Action. So, you can imagine how excited I was by this felicitous turn in Begbie’s work. We’ll see how good the book is re developing the train of thought laid out in his B&C article. I’m proposing it as the next book for my theological aesthetics reading group, so hopefully you and I can have a fruitful discussion about it and your project with medieval and classical aesthetics.

By: Davis

Davis — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 19:29:51 +0000

Very interesting sculptures.

By: Cynthia R. Nielsen

Cynthia R. Nielsen — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:37:11 +0000

Excellent post, Dan. Now you have convinced me to buy Begbie’s book. I think that Begbie’s work actually complements or could be harmonized with a classico-medieval view of aesthetics. In other words, where the latter (in my opinion) can at times seem to degrade the physical and sensuous, Begbie’s emphasis on music as a physico-spiritual whole is a plus. It always bothers me when I read in Boethius or others of the same stripe that what is most important in music in terms of aesthetics is the proportion relations “behind” the sounds. Begbie helps us to balance this by giving us a picture of music as iconically experienced through and in the sound.

Best wishes,
Cynthia

By: Scott

Scott — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 14:53:43 +0000

Just saw the film _Happy Feet_; there’s nothing quite like an ‘eco-musical’ with penguins in Antartica. Do you think the genre of ‘musicals’ is illustrative of the sort of communion btwn. creatures and their ultimate source?

By: Kate McClain

Kate McClain — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 03:10:30 +0000

Well put! I like the pictures you chose too, though I am partial to those icicle sculptures.