Comments on: Does is matter that Dumbledore is gay? http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/ Catholic Anglican Reflections on Theology and Culture Thu, 04 Dec 2008 08:10:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Janet Leslie Blumberg http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-394 Janet Leslie Blumberg Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:52:09 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-394 stratkey mentioned: "It seems fundamentally American to be so preoccupied with this appetite (sex) that we have to sanctify it theologically." Aron's response was great. But (of course) I want to ask about the metaphysics of this "appetite"? Why is it that materialistic America is so obsessed with sex? Isn't it because the body, like nature, has been spiritual from the beginning? (The Jewish tradition is right about the becoming-one-flesh.) If people are running after it, it's because there is something deeply good there. Something that can be and is distorted and made into a destruction. This whole "yearning/intimacy vs sex/acts" -- as well as the tensions between the feminine and masculine parts of ourselves -- is explored in a beautiful film called "The Slaughter Rule." Has anyone seen it? (It has the advantage of being set in my home state of Montana, too.) Ryan Gosling and David Morse play a kid who's cut from his football team and loses his Dad in the same week and is very vulnerable -- and a lonely older man who becomes his coach for "six man football," played out among the ranches and on the "rez." (It's the real Montana!) I've watched this amazing film three times and I've seen it differently each time. It is unquestionably a film about love and about trust. And it helps me realize how profoundly confused we ALL are about the nature of love when it is between men (in this case), or between an adult and an adolescent, and about homosexuality and about sex vs intimacy. In the end, this amazing film maybe speaks to Aron's initial question, perhaps: "Does it matter if Dumbledore is gay?" Because after the third viewing I was asking myself, why did it ever seem to matter to me whether or not this boy's coach is gay? I was so afraid of sexual predation. But the difference between predatory self-gratification and a genuine love with boundaries has nothing to do with the sexual orientation of the adult and the adolescent. It has to do with trustworthiness and the strength to have capacity for love. It has to do with yearning and intimacy. If you view this film, be sure to look at the deleted scenes too. stratkey mentioned: “It seems fundamentally American to be so preoccupied with this appetite (sex) that we have to sanctify it theologically.”
Aron’s response was great. But (of course) I want to ask about the metaphysics of this “appetite”? Why is it that materialistic America is so obsessed with sex? Isn’t it because the body, like nature, has been spiritual from the beginning? (The Jewish tradition is right about the becoming-one-flesh.) If people are running after it, it’s because there is something deeply good there. Something that can be and is distorted and made into a destruction.
This whole “yearning/intimacy vs sex/acts” — as well as the tensions between the feminine and masculine parts of ourselves — is explored in a beautiful film called “The Slaughter Rule.” Has anyone seen it? (It has the advantage of being set in my home state of Montana, too.) Ryan Gosling and David Morse play a kid who’s cut from his football team and loses his Dad in the same week and is very vulnerable — and a lonely older man who becomes his coach for “six man football,” played out among the ranches and on the “rez.” (It’s the real Montana!)
I’ve watched this amazing film three times and I’ve seen it differently each time. It is unquestionably a film about love and about trust. And it helps me realize how profoundly confused we ALL are about the nature of love when it is between men (in this case), or between an adult and an adolescent, and about homosexuality and about sex vs intimacy.
In the end, this amazing film maybe speaks to Aron’s initial question, perhaps: “Does it matter if Dumbledore is gay?” Because after the third viewing I was asking myself, why did it ever seem to matter to me whether or not this boy’s coach is gay? I was so afraid of sexual predation. But the difference between predatory self-gratification and a genuine love with boundaries has nothing to do with the sexual orientation of the adult and the adolescent. It has to do with trustworthiness and the strength to have capacity for love. It has to do with yearning and intimacy.
If you view this film, be sure to look at the deleted scenes too.

]]> By: stratkey http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-393 stratkey Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:24:56 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-393 Thanks, that's helpful. It's good to keep perspective on yearning/intimacy vs. sex/acts. Thanks, that’s helpful. It’s good to keep perspective on yearning/intimacy vs. sex/acts.

]]> By: A.D. http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-392 A.D. Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:21:54 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-392 A very good complaint. Maybe von Balthasar on Eros would help us here, where Eros is about yearning, not sex. I think it is important to retain a sense of eros in heaven, for it both gives us a feeling that we will always move closer to and deeper with God, as well as communicating the bodily joy inherent in this quest. We will be resurrected bodies, not ghosts and we will "taste and see" that the Lord is good. True our sexuality will be unrecognizable from the vantage point of this mortal coil, and our dietary habits will probably not fall into either carnivorous or vegetarian, though they might fall under body and blood. And it is not just that sex and eating are "images" or "symbols" of incorporation. I would rather say they are forays into the real, under which our sex and our eating are pale reflections. A very good complaint. Maybe von Balthasar on Eros would help us here, where Eros is about yearning, not sex. I think it is important to retain a sense of eros in heaven, for it both gives us a feeling that we will always move closer to and deeper with God, as well as communicating the bodily joy inherent in this quest. We will be resurrected bodies, not ghosts and we will “taste and see” that the Lord is good. True our sexuality will be unrecognizable from the vantage point of this mortal coil, and our dietary habits will probably not fall into either carnivorous or vegetarian, though they might fall under body and blood. And it is not just that sex and eating are “images” or “symbols” of incorporation. I would rather say they are forays into the real, under which our sex and our eating are pale reflections.

]]> By: stratkey http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-391 stratkey Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:03:06 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-391 I think it's interesting that we feel the need to draw sex and sexuality up into heaven. Marriage metaphors notwithstanding, why should we suppose that it need exist there? It seems fundamentally American to be so preoccupied with this appetite (sex) that we have to sanctify it theologically. e.g. I don't sit around wondering whether I'm going to be a vegetarian in my resurrected body or not. I guess this means I'm not a decent theologian, but I don't agree that "the elect are erotically bonded" to one another. Thoughts? I think it’s interesting that we feel the need to draw sex and sexuality up into heaven. Marriage metaphors notwithstanding, why should we suppose that it need exist there? It seems fundamentally American to be so preoccupied with this appetite (sex) that we have to sanctify it theologically. e.g. I don’t sit around wondering whether I’m going to be a vegetarian in my resurrected body or not. I guess this means I’m not a decent theologian, but I don’t agree that “the elect are erotically bonded” to one another. Thoughts?

]]> By: Davis http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-389 Davis Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:14:03 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-389 Random thought: It's about intimacy, which can include sexuality, but is not defined by it. Sexuality is a completely earthly thing - intimacy is a heavenly thing. Random thought:

It’s about intimacy, which can include sexuality, but is not defined by it. Sexuality is a completely earthly thing - intimacy is a heavenly thing.

]]> By: Scott http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-388 Scott Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:35:45 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-388 If such a claim .... then positing these 'sexual' organs as a means by which we see and enjoy God would seem (perhaps?) to posit a created form as a mediator in the beatific vision/enjoyment? I've yet to 'work out' for myself through adequate amounts of reading how to understand how Christ mediates God to us in the beatific vision/enjoyment... If such a claim …. then positing these ’sexual’ organs as a means by which we see and enjoy God would seem (perhaps?) to posit a created form as a mediator in the beatific vision/enjoyment? I’ve yet to ‘work out’ for myself through adequate amounts of reading how to understand how Christ mediates God to us in the beatific vision/enjoyment…

]]> By: Scott http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-387 Scott Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:32:51 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2007/10/22/does-is-matter-that-dumbledore-is-gay/#comment-387 This is quite an interesting allegorical interpretation of Christ's bleeding wound--it is on par with the heights of medieval piety, as when they'd suck on the breasts of Mother Jesus, or nuns would kiss Jesus' foreskin and use it as a wedding ring. But this goes even further, by extending it into the beatific vision and beatific enjoyment. If such a claim is analogical or metaphorical (some sense of which we do not yet know), and yet we will see God 'face to face' (at least on the patristic & scholastic schemes) without mediation of some created form, such as foreskins and breasts. This is quite an interesting allegorical interpretation of Christ’s bleeding wound–it is on par with the heights of medieval piety, as when they’d suck on the breasts of Mother Jesus, or nuns would kiss Jesus’ foreskin and use it as a wedding ring. But this goes even further, by extending it into the beatific vision and beatific enjoyment. If such a claim is analogical or metaphorical (some sense of which we do not yet know), and yet we will see God ‘face to face’ (at least on the patristic & scholastic schemes) without mediation of some created form, such as foreskins and breasts.

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