Comments on: Bulgakov Blog Conference, Day 7 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2008/10/09/bulgakov-blog-conference-day-7/ Catholic Anglican Reflections on Theology and Culture Sun, 11 Jul 2010 19:17:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Janet Leslie Blumberg http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2008/10/09/bulgakov-blog-conference-day-7/comment-page-1/#comment-774 Janet Leslie Blumberg Sat, 18 Oct 2008 01:51:41 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2008/10/09/bulgakov-blog-conference-day-7/#comment-774 Scott, Thanks so much! It would be interesting to know what the word is in Russian. ----- That event at CUA on "The Truth about Mary" looks fascinating. "Truth" is a good way to get at the divide between analytic and Continental modes of thinking. I think that the same divide exists between how the pre-modern West thinks "truth" and how it begins to think truth in the 17th century with the rise of Newtonian mechanics.... Scott,
Thanks so much! It would be interesting to know what the word is in Russian.
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That event at CUA on “The Truth about Mary” looks fascinating. “Truth” is a good way to get at the divide between analytic and Continental modes of thinking. I think that the same divide exists between how the pre-modern West thinks “truth” and how it begins to think truth in the 17th century with the rise of Newtonian mechanics….

]]> By: Scott Sharman http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2008/10/09/bulgakov-blog-conference-day-7/comment-page-1/#comment-770 Scott Sharman Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:40:07 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2008/10/09/bulgakov-blog-conference-day-7/#comment-770 Ms. Blumberg, Thanks for the question. I think your own speculation of an answer at the end of your comment is exactly right. Bulgakov wants us to understand a mother's giving 'tangibility' to a child as an analogy for the Spirit's eternal reposing upon the Word as content and giving the Word a life before the Father. This is not just a putting on of flesh over a life that that already exists spiritually, but rather it is a contributing of the very liveliness that makes existence full or, 'thick' as you put it. So in the case of Mary, in giving human birth to Incarnate Word, she participates both really and figurally in the hypostatic Motherhood that characterizes the Spirit-Son relationship in the holy Trinity. As to why 'tangible' was the word used to describe this contribution in the English translation, my Russian is still too weak to be able to comment. My supervisor, T. Allan Smith, was the translator of the recent Eeardmans edition of The Burning Bush, so I could probably find out some more info on that if you like. Ms. Blumberg,

Thanks for the question. I think your own speculation of an answer at the end of your comment is exactly right. Bulgakov wants us to understand a mother’s giving ‘tangibility’ to a child as an analogy for the Spirit’s eternal reposing upon the Word as content and giving the Word a life before the Father. This is not just a putting on of flesh over a life that that already exists spiritually, but rather it is a contributing of the very liveliness that makes existence full or, ‘thick’ as you put it. So in the case of Mary, in giving human birth to Incarnate Word, she participates both really and figurally in the hypostatic Motherhood that characterizes the Spirit-Son relationship in the holy Trinity.

As to why ‘tangible’ was the word used to describe this contribution in the English translation, my Russian is still too weak to be able to comment. My supervisor, T. Allan Smith, was the translator of the recent Eeardmans edition of The Burning Bush, so I could probably find out some more info on that if you like.

]]> By: Janet Leslie Blumberg http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2008/10/09/bulgakov-blog-conference-day-7/comment-page-1/#comment-764 Janet Leslie Blumberg Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:50:08 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2008/10/09/bulgakov-blog-conference-day-7/#comment-764 Sophia, Thanks so much for directing us to the Annunciation Icon at your website. It is unforgettable. Scott Sharman, A question about this section of your discussion: “Motherhood,” Bulgakov explains, “is the tangibleness of what is being begotten or already born.”11 Fathers create existence, but Mothers give life. On a hasty reading, this might sound quite gnostic. What is "tangible," after all, is literally what we can touch and hold, and so it almost sounds as though what Mary provides in bearing Christ is merely the material or physical (bodily or fleshly)) element in the mix. I know this is not what Bulgakov (or you) meant. And I have noticed that he always speaks of "life" and of the "Spirit" as though there is a special "thickness" and substantiality always pertaining to them. (Perhaps this is also related to the way the Spirit renders the Son of God more "tangible" to the Father? Or something like that?) Could you say a little more about this "tangibility" that Mary provides? Sophia,

Thanks so much for directing us to the Annunciation Icon at your website. It is unforgettable.

Scott Sharman,

A question about this section of your discussion: “Motherhood,” Bulgakov explains, “is the tangibleness of what is being begotten or already born.”11 Fathers create existence, but Mothers give life.

On a hasty reading, this might sound quite gnostic. What is “tangible,” after all, is literally what we can touch and hold, and so it almost sounds as though what Mary provides in bearing Christ is merely the material or physical (bodily or fleshly)) element in the mix. I know this is not what Bulgakov (or you) meant. And I have noticed that he always speaks of “life” and of the “Spirit” as though there is a special “thickness” and substantiality always pertaining to them. (Perhaps this is also related to the way the Spirit renders the Son of God more “tangible” to the Father? Or something like that?)

Could you say a little more about this “tangibility” that Mary provides?

]]> By: sophia compton http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2008/10/09/bulgakov-blog-conference-day-7/comment-page-1/#comment-762 sophia compton Fri, 10 Oct 2008 03:30:03 +0000 http://www.thelandofunlikeness.com/2008/10/09/bulgakov-blog-conference-day-7/#comment-762 Jaroslav Pelican (who converted to Orthodoxy before he died) in his “Imago Dei”, notes that at every critical point in the development of Christological doctrine the ‘doctrine of Mary has become a central issue in the debate.’ ( p. 128) As Christology developed, and Christ as “God” , was determined to be the supreme “uncreated” Mediator, it leaves vacant the position of the highest “human mediation”, and that place naturally, it seems, fell to Mary. It is my belief that adoptionism is one of the forms wherein she played a part in the debate…and the overwhelming reason why this is so is the role she plays in the liturgical life of the early Church, and also of course, the homage paid to her in the homilies of the early Fathers. I think this is one reason Bulgakov felt justified in re-examining her relationship to the Holy Spirit. The earliest icon of the Pentecost (the Rabula Codex---I have a picture of this icon at my website) shows the Theotokos in the midst of the apostles with the image of the Spirit-Dove hovering over her head. (Later Pentecost icons have removed her.) The Fathers ( especially around the 6th-7th Ecumenical Councils) speak again and again of HER mediation, eg, Andrew of Crete calls her the “Mediatress of law and grace”; St Germanus calls her “truly a good Mediatress of all sinners”; St Modestos of Jerusalem addressed her as the Theotokos “through whom we have been mystically recreated and made the temple of the Holy Spirit.” Gregory Palamas went so far as to say about her: “She dwells on the frontier between created and uncreated natures.” In the “Friend of the Bridegroom” (in his examination of the Deisis icon) Bulgakov sees Mary as the “creaturely” manifestation of the Wisdom of God (p 138). And, as Mr. Sharman has well demonstrated, there are numerous references to her relationship with the Holy Spirit in his “Burning Bush”. In particular, in his “Excursus 1 and 2” Bulgakov links her to the Old Testament types, and therefore to the Shekinah-Spirit present there. Bulgakov relies heavily, of course, on Church tradition (collected in the apocrypha and in liturgical hymns, such as the Akathist), because a theological doctrine about Mary (beyond the doctrine of “Mother of God” given to her at Ephesus in 431) does not exist in Orthodoxy, that is, like the “evolution of dogma” concerning Mary in the West. However, in the East, after the third Ecumenical Council, Mary suffuses the early liturgical texts—even John Maximovitch tells us that the Theotokos herself “placed hymns in the mouths of the composers of Church hymns” (his “Orthodox Veneration”, p. 44); and it is these Spirit-filled hymns that became the cornerstone of Marian devotion. And still today, one of the Pentecost prayers places these words in the mouth of Mary: “The descent of the Holy Spirit has purified my soul and sanctified my body: it has made of me a Temple that contains God, a Tabernacle divinely adorned, a living Sanctuary, and the Mother of Life.” M S Compton Jaroslav Pelican (who converted to Orthodoxy before he died) in his “Imago Dei”, notes that at every critical point in the development of Christological doctrine the ‘doctrine of Mary has become a central issue in the debate.’ ( p. 128) As Christology developed, and Christ as “God” , was determined to be the supreme “uncreated” Mediator, it leaves vacant the position of the highest “human mediation”, and that place naturally, it seems, fell to Mary. It is my belief that adoptionism is one of the forms wherein she played a part in the debate…and the overwhelming reason why this is so is the role she plays in the liturgical life of the early Church, and also of course, the homage paid to her in the homilies of the early Fathers. I think this is one reason Bulgakov felt justified in re-examining her relationship to the Holy Spirit. The earliest icon of the Pentecost (the Rabula Codex—I have a picture of this icon at my website) shows the Theotokos in the midst of the apostles with the image of the Spirit-Dove hovering over her head. (Later Pentecost icons have removed her.) The Fathers ( especially around the 6th-7th Ecumenical Councils) speak again and again of HER mediation, eg, Andrew of Crete calls her the “Mediatress of law and grace”; St Germanus calls her “truly a good Mediatress of all sinners”; St Modestos of Jerusalem addressed her as the Theotokos “through whom we have been mystically recreated and made the temple of the Holy Spirit.” Gregory Palamas went so far as to say about her: “She dwells on the frontier between created and uncreated natures.” In the “Friend of the Bridegroom” (in his examination of the Deisis icon) Bulgakov sees Mary as the “creaturely” manifestation of the Wisdom of God (p 138). And, as Mr. Sharman has well demonstrated, there are numerous references to her relationship with the Holy Spirit in his “Burning Bush”. In particular, in his “Excursus 1 and 2” Bulgakov links her to the Old Testament types, and therefore to the Shekinah-Spirit present there. Bulgakov relies heavily, of course, on Church tradition (collected in the apocrypha and in liturgical hymns, such as the Akathist), because a theological doctrine about Mary (beyond the doctrine of “Mother of God” given to her at Ephesus in 431) does not exist in Orthodoxy, that is, like the “evolution of dogma” concerning Mary in the West. However, in the East, after the third Ecumenical Council, Mary suffuses the early liturgical texts—even John Maximovitch tells us that the Theotokos herself “placed hymns in the mouths of the composers of Church hymns” (his “Orthodox Veneration”, p. 44); and it is these Spirit-filled hymns that became the cornerstone of Marian devotion. And still today, one of the Pentecost prayers places these words in the mouth of Mary: “The descent of the Holy Spirit has purified my soul and sanctified my body: it has made of me a Temple that contains God, a Tabernacle divinely adorned, a living Sanctuary, and the Mother of Life.”

M S Compton

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